Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Mariska Hargitay: Welcome. I'm Mariska Hargitay, and this is Survivor Stories, a podcast of the Joyful Heart Foundation, which I started more than 20 years ago to transform society's response to sexual assault, domestic violence, and child abuse. Thank you for joining us today. Survivor stories introduces you to some of the remarkable people that we at the Foundation have met over the years. Through interviews with host and longtime board member Debbie Millman, you will hear from these people, some of whom have survived profoundly difficult, painful experiences of violence and gone on to change the world. I hope you find their stories as inspiring and enlightening and motivating as I do.
[00:00:57] Debbie Millman: Since recording this episode, the founder of Natasha's Justice Project, Natasha Alexenko, has passed. We are so grateful for her work and her commitment to this effort. Please note that this episode contains depictions of sexual abuse and other violence. Please take care of yourself and go to our website, joyfulheartfoundation.org to find resources and hotlines if needed.
[00:01:29] Natasha Alexenko: Sexual assault doesn't just affect the survivor. This affected my mother and my friends and my family. Everyone who loved me was broken. It broke. He broke everything and he changed the trajectory of my life forever.
[00:01:51] Debbie Millman: Welcome to Survivor Stories, the podcast of the Joyful Heart Foundation, where we meet the people who are helping reshape society's approach to domestic violence, sexual assault and child abuse. I'm your host, Debbie Millman, longtime board member of Joyful Heart, working alongside our fearless founder, Mariska Hargitay. All of us at the Joyful Heart Foundation are grateful you're joining us to learn more about difficult, painful, but profoundly important issues. Since this is our very first episode of Survivor Stories, we thought it would be a good idea to focus on one of the issues that has been a top priority for the Foundation in recent years, ending the backlog of rape kits, thousands of which have been sitting in police stations and labs for years or even decades without being tested all over the United States. We've made a lot of headway on this issue in recent years, but there's still a lot more work to be done. Today we're going to speak with an expert on the issue, someone who brings a unique and very personal perspective as both a sexual assault victim and a leading advocate. As the founder of Natasha's Justice Project, Natasha Alexenko has devoted her life to championing the rights of sexual assault survivors and fighting to end the scandalously long delays in testing rape kits that have plagued jurisdictions across the United States. Her story begins when she herself was sexually assaulted and submitted to a rape kit exam conducted in New York City. The exam collected the DNA of her attacker. Then she had to wait for nearly ten years for the rape kit to be tested, and then many years more for her attacker to be brought to justice. The experience led her to found Natasha's Justice Project and become a leading advocate for laws requiring that rape kits be tested within 30 days. She has testified before legislative committees in all 50 states and written a memoir about her experience. Natasha, thank you for joining me today on Survivor Stories.
[00:04:24] Natasha Alexenko: Oh, Debbie, it is an honor to be here with you and Joyful Heart. We are so appreciative of everything you've done to shine a light on this issue. It has been far too long since we've been able to talk about this, and I appreciate you greatly.
[00:04:45] Debbie Millman: Thank you, Natasha. I know an important part of being an advocate is talking about your journey. If you can, can you take us back to 1993? You were a student in Manhattan and you were assaulted. To the extent that you feel comfortable, would you be able to tell us what happened?
[00:05:08] Natasha Alexenko: I appreciate you saying that. I do also just want to preface that I am a person with ALS, so my voice may go in and out, so I really appreciate the patience of your listeners as I go in and share my story. And certainly it's something to talk about as well at a later time. I moved to New York City from Canada. It was always my dream to attend school in New York City. It was the time of my life. I lived in a great apartment. I had amazing roommates. I had a very active social life in school and work. I was living the dream. Little did I know that my dream would be severed on a fateful night in August. I was walking to my apartment after kind of doing a cathartic dump with a fellow employee at a restaurant, and it was like a three-block walk. It was a walk I took regularly, so I was wasn't looking behind my shoulders. I wasn't particularly being hypervigilant. I was very comfortable in my neighborhood. Unbeknownst to me, there was a man with a gun. I had no idea he was there. It was almost like he appeared out of thin air. I didn't hear footsteps. I didn't hear anything, to be honest. It was like there he was, holding a gun to my head, and I was completely shaken. He forced me into, like, the vestibule of my apartment building, and he showed me the gun. And I had only seen, like, on television, like revolvers. And this was a nine millimeter automatic. He showed me how the bullets were kind of laid along the top of the gun, just to let me know the gun was loaded, and he was absolutely willing to use it to kill me. He forced me into my apartment. He made me use my keys. Initially, he told me he just was needing to hide from the police, and I kind of was like, agreeing. Okay. No problem. And he asked me if I had roommates. At that time, I had two roommates and two dogs. I kind of thought, okay, if he brings me there and I lie, it's going to be a bloodbath. So I told him the truth. I had two roommates, two dogs. So he said, do you have a roof? I said, yes, we do. So he took me up the elevator. And, you know, my reaction varied from kind of being frozen to being hypervigilant and alert to sobbing. I went through every emotion we experience as humans until he led me up to the rooftop, raped and robbed me several times, told me he was going to kill me several times, and as other survivors know, I'm sure, it felt like 1,000,000 hours. If you asked me how long it was, I couldn't tell you because time didn't exist in that moment. Only fear existed. Only control over me existed. So I thought I was going to die. I saw the man's face. He had this gun, which he wasn't afraid to use. So I kind of was envisioning my last moments. Life flashed before my eyes. But surprisingly, after he had assaulted me and done all kinds of things to me several times, he said, count to ten and go home. I was absolutely shocked, Debbie. I thought I was dead for certain. Now this part where as we know how trauma affects the brain, I kind of have trouble remembering. And that is how I got back to my apartment. But my roommates have told me that I banged on the door screen, told them what happened, and all I wanted to do at that time was take a shower. I just wanted every part of the night's history to be removed with soap and the hottest water possible. But my roommate insisted we go and get a rape kit done because we didn't want this person harming others. And I agreed. I do want to say that my story is, you know, may differ from other survivors out there.
[00:10:14] Natasha Alexenko: Every survivor has their own lived experiences and their own views on law enforcement and hospitals. So I'm certainly not saying I am the cookie-cutter and something everything every survivor should do. I recognize we are all different humans. We all come from different backgrounds, experiences, and different levels of privilege. In my scenario, I did decide to get a rape kit done. We took an ambulance to the hospital, and a rape kit is a very invasive procedure. It's like a gynecological exam. So you've gone through something where your body's been exposed, touched, and once again, you have to go through this process. And as you're going through it, you have to tell the story over again and again. As survivors in trauma, our memories are jumbled and mixed up and portions are missing, and it's really hard, especially immediately in the aftermath, to recall the traumatic event. So certainly a rape kit isn't something that's easy peasy. That's not to say I regret it in any way, shape or form. It's the best thing I did, but it was hard. It's hard for survivors because it's just so invasive, and we've already felt like someone's taken the control from us. So a rape kit sometimes can feel that way too. That exposure, feeling like you almost felt like a mannequin, right? Like, okay, here I am again, doing things that aren't in my control.
[00:12:08] Natasha Alexenko: So I naturally thought that since I had gone through that invasive process that my rape kit would be tested. I had a really good detective working on my case. I was joined by another detective. They believed me. And again, I know that's not the case for every survivor, but for me, it meant the world. They treated me with dignity and respect. And we went through the details of the case, but I couldn't recall the man's face. It was like blank. I couldn't even remember the color of his clothing. Kind of kept changing in my mind. But what I could recall with perfect detail was a gun. And I will tell you, if I close my eyes right now, I can still see that gun as if I saw it five minutes ago. I mean, that's how my brain has kind of processed the assault. My brain said, this is the thing that's dangerous. So this is the thing we're going to remember and hold on to. So I couldn't remember his face. I felt guilty. Time went by. They closed my case. They couldn't find him. I did the rape kit. I explained what had happened. I know they dusted for fingerprints. So why couldn't they find him? Well, I started blaming myself.
[00:13:39] Debbie Millman: Why? Natasha.
[00:13:41] Natasha Alexenko: You know, I thought. Well, you couldn't describe what he looked like. And if you could, you know, maybe a mugshot would line up. Maybe the police would be more inclined to push the case forward. So I felt, well, you couldn't remember his face. This is your fault. And then what began was this kind of self-hatred. Because I thought, here's a person who raped me at gunpoint. A stranger. This isn't a one and only. He is hurting other people. And every person that is harmed by this man is my fault. So I kind of, like, internalized this hating of who I was. I Went through years of just being angry at myself. I went through years of walking in fear, thinking he could be behind me at any time. And you know, sexual assault, it doesn't just affect the survivor. This affected my mother and my friends and my family. Everyone who loved me was broken. It broke. He broke everything. And he changed the trajectory of my life forever. I moved around and went to college in Florida. Then I moved to Virginia. While I was in Virginia, like you said earlier, Debbie, about nine and a half years later, I got a phone call from the Manhattan DA's office, and they said, we've tested your rape kit. It has only been tested very recently, so my rape kit sat on a shelf collecting dust for nine and a half years. So here my body was a crime scene. I had gone through all of this self-hatred, this self-harm for so long. And here my rape kit wasn't tested, but I found out I was one of, I believe, 11,000. Is that correct, Debbie?
[00:16:07] Debbie Millman: Just in New York, right?
[00:16:09] Natasha Alexenko: Yeah, in New York alone. One of 11,000 survivors whose bodies have been crime scenes, who had probably families that loved them, that were broken just like I was. And, you know, I'm a different person now, but who I was when I got that phone call, I wasn't angry. I was just grateful. You know, I thought, oh my God, they didn't forget me, you know? It was just gratitude. I understand, you know, people might have had different reactions, but my reaction was I have gratitude. I hadn't been forgotten.
[00:16:55] Debbie Millman: Natasha, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. I'm so sorry that we live in a world where things like this occur.
[00:17:03] Natasha Alexenko: Well, that's the thing. I feel like there's so many different excuses made. Money is one. I know in New York City there was an issue with just technology, not having the DNA labs available. But at the end of the day, I mean, when we look at the cost of testing a rape kit versus not testing one, the math isn't mathing, as they say. I mean, at the end of the day, when I think about my life, the services I needed, my health concerns, the fact that this man, when we found him was on a crime spree countrywide affecting other people, affecting taxpayers, a burden on society. Public safety. Public health. What did that cost? So rape kits cost, let's say $1,000. I'll tell you, testing that kit would have saved a lot of money. So I never buy that money excuse. Because when we're talking about public safety and we're talking about public health, it doesn't make sense. Financially, it makes way more sense to test rape kits. I mean, never mind what that does for our hearts and survivors. Take that out of the equation, right?
[00:18:32] Debbie Millman: In that nine and a half years, did you work with law enforcement at all? Did anybody from any DA's office reach out to you? What happened between the time of the assault and the nine and a half years wherein you finally found out your rape kit was tested?
[00:18:51] Natasha Alexenko: Well, a year after I had been assaulted, the police called me and said, we're closing your case. Your case is now cold. And I said, does that mean you're not going to look for him anymore? And they're like, well, if we find him, we'll let you know. So it was silence for nine and a half years. I didn't hear from anyone. I thought they forgot about me. I felt like, again, well, you didn't remember his face. So they don't care about you anymore. Maybe they never believed you.
[00:19:30] Debbie Millman: Did they say anything at that time about the rape kit and what the results might have been? Or why there might be a delay?
[00:19:39] Natasha Alexenko: No. And in fact, I know again, this is just coming from my lived experience, I assumed my rape kit was tested. I didn't even ask. I assumed, oh, it's the police. The police are good. They did this. It took so long. So it never, ever dawned on me that my kit wasn't tested. I know I hear from other survivors quite the opposite. Especially now that Joyful Heart has done such a good job of exposing the issue. I mean, now we ask questions. Now we have tracking. Now we have all these tools at our disposal where we're aware, and we have the power of knowledge to recognize that our kits may not be tested, so this is what you can do. In my case, I was just like, of course it's the police. They never do anything wrong and they never would have put me through that.
[00:20:38] Debbie Millman: I can't even imagine the strength it took for you after the assault to resist taking a shower, to go in an ambulance, to go to the hospital, to have a rape kit done. You knew how important that was. I'm assuming that the hospital also explained that to you as well as law enforcement, no?
[00:20:59] Natasha Alexenko: Oh, absolutely. I mean, the forensic nurse examiner was very kind, and they were very grateful. They thanked me multiple times for being cooperative. So and again, the police in my case even took me out for ice cream the next day. I mean, there was no reason to believe that I wasn't doing everything right. Everything they asked for.
[00:21:26] Debbie Millman: Natasha, in the ten years it took for your rape kit to be tested, joyful Heart discovered in the work that we've been doing, and then further in Mariska Hargitay's documentary from 2017, I Am Evidence, that the backlog was at one point before this work that we've done was once believed to involve as many as 400,000 kits in the United States, 400,000. Today, we estimate that there are still 100,000 rape kits that have gone untested. Now, while that 100,000 number might be significantly less than 400,000, it's still egregious, and if we didn't know about the 400,000, 100,000 would seem just astronomical. Rape kits are critically important for collecting evidence, especially DNA. How did your kit, when it was finally tested, play a pivotal role in identifying your perpetrator?
[00:22:38] Natasha Alexenko: In my case, we were nearing the statute of limitations. So the DA in my case did something called a John Doe indictment. We indicted the DNA in the rape kit to stop the clock on the statute of limitations. And thankfully, you know, so many groups out there have eliminated the statute on rape in states across the country. But in my case, at that time, there was still a statute. So we waited. The DA said we may never, ever find this person, but at least we have a chance. I was grateful and went on with my life. And then I got called in 2007 saying, there's been a hit on your DNA kit. So 2003, we do the John Doe indictment, and then not till 2007 was a match in CODIS found, my perpetrator.
[00:23:49] Debbie Millman: Can you share what CODIS is? So our listeners might learn if they're not familiar?
[00:23:55] Natasha Alexenko: Sure. So CODIS is the nationwide database for DNA. It's similar to fingerprint databases. So DNA in CODIS comes from rape kits. My DNA is in CODIS. So this is how we can do matches from rape kits.
[00:24:15] Debbie Millman: One thing that I was surprised to learn when this occurred was that though the grand jury indicted the DNA from your kit in 2003, the statute of limitations at that time was ten years. That changed so that once the indictment occurred, the law enforcement could charge your rapist with the crime, even if it took 50 years to find him. How did that help you understand what could happen next?
[00:24:51] Natasha Alexenko: Well, recognizing that we had basically stopped the clock, relief. Again, feeling like I mattered, feeling like I was believed. Testifying before the grand jury was an honor. Watching their faces as I shared my story and then to get the indictment, I felt empowered. I felt that I wasn't just thrown away and I could kind of wipe the dust off, if that makes sense.
[00:25:26] Debbie Millman: Absolutely. So you were always believed?
[00:25:30] Natasha Alexenko: I was. And fortunately, there was no one in my path, and again, I recognize that's certainly not the case with other survivors, but I fortunately was believed by law enforcement and my family and friends, right? And I recognize my privilege in that situation because I was able to lean on family and friends. I was believed by everyone around me. The only one that was a jerk to me was me, you know?
[00:26:07] Debbie Millman: Well, I hope that you found a way to be more gentle with yourself and not feel as if you did anything wrong, or that you have anything to feel guilty about. You are a warrior, and I want to talk with you about how you've become such an important advocate and change-maker in this space. Before we get there, I want to ask, were there specific aspects of how the criminal justice system handled your case that influenced how you were going to move ahead and bring about change through your advocacy?
[00:26:43] Natasha Alexenko: Absolutely. In my case, the DA and law enforcement, was a word I didn't know at the time. They were practicing trauma-informed care. They were kind. They, again, were very clear about the fact that I was believed, and every kind of part of the process was explained to me in a way I could understand. I was scared. I was so scared. And they comforted me. They let me know that there was nothing to be afraid of. And I think looking back now, that experience, which I recognize might be unique, really, you know, allowed me to kind of move forward in the healing journey. That's not to say every survivor needs justice for closure and healing.
[00:27:50] Debbie Millman: How was your perpetrator finally caught and what happened after that?
[00:27:57] Natasha Alexenko: My perpetrator was finally caught in Las Vegas. He was jaywalking, which he was given a citation for. Rather than, you know, accepting the citation, he assaulted the police officer. They brought him into the police station and looked him up, and he was sent back to New York for some crimes he had committed. And the detective in New York that processed him did what's called a buccal swab. So he basically swabbed the inside of his cheek to collect DNA. He uploaded that DNA in CODIS, and it was a match for my case. And from that moment on, I knew this man's name, Victor Rondon. And again, my lived experience, knowing his name was so empowering. For me, knowing his name felt like magic, like it was powerful.
[00:29:06] Debbie Millman: How did that help you heal and how did that inspire your advocacy?
[00:29:12] Natasha Alexenko: Well, I'm still healing today. Healing is a journey. But, you know, I have to say, like, there is no inspiration without people around you that are inspiring you. The DA in my case Melissa Mourges was inspirational very early into my journey into advocacy. Joyful Heart came into my life and helped me and started giving me all this information. Four hundred thousand unprocessed rape kits. This was back in the beginning and just recognizing the work others were doing around backlog, whether it was survivors, advocates, groups like Joyful Heart, or my District Attorney. I couldn't help but be inspired to be an advocate myself. Soak in information because one of the great things about Joyful Heart is you just have a plethora of information at your disposal through what the work you do, like how many kids there are, what states have what laws passed. So as an advocate, it was empowering for me to be able to make that contact and find out what I could do, where my voice could be used best. And as I saw, using my voice, being something that was helping change things, made me push harder, speak louder, meet other survivors. And that healing journey and that journey into advocacy came from inspiration. It really, that's the only way is to stand shoulder to shoulder with others who are working in the same direction you are, and to consider your healing at the same time, and recognize that our voices as survivors are important in playing a role in making change. We deserve a seat at the table. We are the ones with the experience and the knowledge, and it is just incredible to feel like you're a part of this multidisciplinary team working together to make it so survivors know they're not forgotten And that we matter. And we're believed.
[00:32:00] Debbie Millman: Natasha, when your perpetrator was discovered, I believe through CODIS, the combined DNA index system, the DNA showed that he had had multiple infractions. Is that correct?
[00:32:16] Natasha Alexenko: Yes. He was a one man crime spree. And here's the thing. Rapists aren't specialists. They don't stick to one crime. It could be a variety of crimes across the country. He didn't just stick to sexual assault. He was a dangerous person who needed to be behind bars for the sake of public safety.
[00:32:41] Debbie Millman: In the ten years that it took for your rape kit to be tested, and then the several years after where it took time to find him, that was about 13 years that had your rape kit been tested when the crime first occurred, who knows how many people might not have had to be inflicted with the crimes that he committed? This is one of the most crucial aspects, aside from the justice that needs to be made for the victims of sexual assault, but for the overall functioning of the criminal justice system.
[00:33:23] Natasha Alexenko: Absolutely. And that's something that I can't really understand why there's not more emphasis on that fact, because, yes, I mean, we're endangering the public at large. We're endangering public health. And it's amazing how we're able to utilize CODIS when we test these rape kits and how many other crimes are discovered. I mean, you read about in the paper quite frequently now where they'll connect to a rape, to a murder, to a break in to on and on. I mean, it's an amazing tool that is underutilized. And survivors aside, if you're looking at tax dollars, the public, we are costing taxpayers money by not testing rape kits. We are costing them their lives, their livelihoods. We're putting the public in danger when we have a tool that is so easy to utilize that we have the data and the research to prove that testing rape kits works for public safety. Police officers say it. District attorneys say it. Survivors have said it. Certainly, organizations like Joyful Heart have the data to back it up.
[00:35:01] Debbie Millman: When did you decide to create Natasha's Justice Project?
[00:35:07] Natasha Alexenko: I was really inspired by other survivors who, after kind of going public with my case, were reaching out to contact me. I'd worked at several nonprofits throughout my career, and I thought it was a good way to utilize my voice and kind of partner with other organizations that were working on the same issue so that we could further the cause together. And, you know, it's amazing to see what one voice can do and the power of partnering together, the power of our voices survivors have, and the power we have when we are believed and listened to and understood. So really, that was the inspiration, and I'm proud of the work we've done. I also work with the Sexual Assault Kit Initiative as a subject matter expert. That is something Joyful Heart worked on very hard, which is testing rape kits, doing trauma-informed care, and comes from federal money devoted to this cause. And I'm so honored to work with the Sexual Assault Kit Initiative, because I'm sitting next to experts, and I have a place as a survivor at the table where my voice matters. Even though, again, I recognize that my voice is my voice, and we're all so different and we come from so many different backgrounds, have so many different stories and traumas. So I'd like to listen to what other survivors have to say so that I can in some way incorporate their unique viewpoints and experiences to the best of my ability. And I do that with humility.
[00:37:14] Debbie Millman: Natasha, Joyful Heart Foundation and Natasha's Justice Project were among the first organizations to document untested kits in jurisdictions throughout the country, and both organizations have advocated for similar things, including new laws in states across the United States, and this includes changes in funding, legislation, and awareness. What are some of the legislative and policy initiatives that Natasha's Justice Project has been involved in?
[00:37:47] Natasha Alexenko: Very recently, we partnered with Joyful Heart on a bill for a tracking system in California. It's an amazing tool that empowers survivors with the ability to track where the kits are in the system and also give them resources for healing. And so the survivor knows where the kit is, whether it's left the police station, is it in a lab? Is it still in the hospital? Because, you know, as we've been uncovering rape kits, we found them in all kinds of places, right, in people's lockers. In New York City, my kit was in storage, in a storage room. So being able to, as a survivor, follow where your kit is in the process is empowering. So I'm really proud of the tracking systems that are becoming a reality throughout the country. I'm proud of the fact that we've changed things, like the amount of time a rape kit has to be tested in, and these take years. I mean, we've been working with California for almost ten years.
[00:39:05] Debbie Millman: Natasha, can you talk a little bit about how the rape kits are tracked?
[00:39:12] Natasha Alexenko: Well, it varies state to state. California is utilizing their own statewide Department of Justice for their tracking system. Other states use commercial companies to put the software in. Typically, there's a barcode on a rape kit. No name. Completely confidential. So that in each step of the process, the kit is barcoded and it's updated in the computer program and the survivor can watch it. There's no names, so it's not like you can log in and you'll see your name. This is all numbers. There's money for states to implement these, and that's important for them to know. There's money available from the federal government. It's gone down the backlog from 400,000 to 100,000. And I mean, in my opinion, it shouldn't even be one, right? Because every kit is a human being with a life, with a heart, that probably, like me, wanted to take a shower.
[00:40:30] Debbie Millman: Natasha, I want to share some statistics that I think are important for our listeners to know about. Since Joyful Heart and Natasha's Justice Project have been advocating for better laws around rape kits, the following has happened. In 2014, the number of untested rape kits was minimally 400,000. The actual number was not known. Today, we have backlog numbers for nearly all states in the United States. A decade ago, zero states had cleared their backlog. Today, that number is 14, and we need to be able to see a path to all 50 states. Ten years ago, hardly any state had adopted one of the six pillars of rape kit reform that we've all worked on. Today, 49 states have at least one pillar of rape kit reform, and 40 of these states have three or more pillars of reform. And those six pillars are to implement an annual statewide inventory of kits, to mandate the submission and testing of all backlog kits, mandate the testing of all new kits, create and use a statewide kit tracking system, implement mechanisms for survivors to easily find out about the status of their kits, and allocate appropriate funding to submit, test, and track kits. There is so much greater public awareness about the backlog. We see dozens of rape kit related bills being introduced every legislative session throughout the country, and so much of this work has been accomplished by the efforts that you and the Joyful Heart Foundation have been able to create and fulfill. So thank you.
[00:42:26] Natasha Alexenko: It's been an honor of my life, truly. And I remember ten years ago trying to explain what the backlog was, and people just had never even heard of it. Inventorying rape kits I mean, that was such a struggle. And how many states now have issued mandates where, you know, they're counting how many kits have gone unprocessed? And I feel like if we come this far in ten years, I mean, right, our job is to be put out of business, right? I'm humbled by how much has been accomplished and how much I have evolved as a survivor, a human, a wife, an aunt, a daughter. I mean, it's changed my life in so many ways. I can't tell you, Debbie, how much I appreciate the partnership and the fact that Joyful Heart has put so much trust into me as a survivor. I have the deepest, deepest gratitude for the work you do. I will say as an aside, just do you want to talk about why it's so important to test these rape kits and practice trauma-informed care. As a survivor, I am now a person with ALS, and when we talk about trauma and what it does to the brain and all those years of suffering, there is a belief, a theory that neurological disorders are caused by trauma. It's been documented and well studied. We don't know the cause of ALS, but we do know that it's very large in the military community and among survivors. And I wonder, I wonder, Debbie, being a person with ALS, and how much it has to do with the trauma I endured while my rape kit sat collecting dust.
[00:44:45] Debbie Millman: Absolutely. Changing laws are critical in saving lives and finding justice. I mean, legislation assures that rape kit reform will be long lasting, standing throughout time, no matter if there are changes in policy, priorities, with new administrations. And this is why funding and staffing is one of the principal barriers to testing kits. Without money, labs can't test kits. We need to be able to outsource kits to private labs and federal grants as solutions to the funding and staffing problem, because we can't let this keep happening. We can't have more case studies of people experiencing long-term trauma that impacts the entirety of their lives.
[00:45:32] Natasha Alexenko: Absolutely. Money should never be a barrier. And you're right. Implementing these laws ensures that whatever administration is in place, survivors are still taken care of state by state. I really encourage people to look at the data you have on the hits and the criminals, violent criminals that are put behind bars when we test these rape kits and they've done other things, committed other crimes. And it's not just isolated to like my case. This is like all across the country. Not all of us have to go get a rape kit done. Some of us get a rape kit done and never have to take it further. It's our choice. But if we choose to get a rape kit done, we have the right to have that kit tested. And that's the end of the story.
[00:46:38] Debbie Millman: Absolutely. And there's still so much work that needs to be done. You know, I am doing this work now because with my history, doing this work helps me feel like my life makes sense. And there's still tons of states that do not have numbers for their backlog. Not all states have reached full rape kit reform of all six pillars. And that's what motivates me to keep working. What keeps you motivated to continuing to do this important work?
[00:47:10] Natasha Alexenko: What motivates me is we have the tools now. We have the legislation in place in various states. And so we can go to other states and show them why implementing these various rape kit reform laws is so valuable. It's easier to communicate with our elected officials and say, we did this in California, why can't we do this in Nevada? It's something where we can show the value, and we already have the verbiage from those laws to share. So having those tools makes me know we can move forward knowing there's a lot of work to be done. It's daunting, but recognizing we have the implements and the tools to organize, to be loud, to be heard, to be believed, makes me say, I will never stop until this is something that we can look back and say, these are the mistakes we made in the past.
[00:48:28] Debbie Millman: Natasha Alexenko, thank you so much for sharing your story, for doing this important work in our world, and for talking with me today on Survivor Stories, the podcast of the Joyful Heart Foundation.
[00:48:44] Natasha Alexenko: Debbie, it's an honor and a pleasure. Thank you for all you do. I hope you look in the mirror and recognize that you're changing the world.
[00:48:58] Debbie Millman: Right back at you. Natasha, thank you so much. I'm your host, Debbie Millman, and I want to thank you for joining us today on Survivor Stories, the podcast of the Joyful Heart Foundation.
